(Author’s note: I have about fifty different friends who would all like this article to go in slightly different directions. They aren’t by any means being terrible about it, but I wanted whatever ends up in this article to be what I think about this topic, minimally influenced by who I like better and identify more with or who simply is more forceful at me in a way that makes me uncomfortable disagreeing.
I really hoped this was going to be about holding one's own side to account. That's something I can agree on with anyone, whatever side they come from, and no matter who did what to whom.
Instead, it's about feeling uncomfortable when someone not on your side calls your side to account, and you aren't sure whether they are lying, and if so, how much. You also present that as a uniquely right wing problem, and from my viewpoint far to the left of you, I can assure you that lies are told about everyone and anyone. And while the media *may* do a better job of fact checking if the target is on the left, it's sure not going to be a perfect job.
At any rate, you have my sympathy. I'm heartily sick of sifting through lies, and wondering whether the latest "someone on your side did something bad" soundbite has any truth to it.
Also, for the record, if you are a habitual liar, you are not on my side, whatever policies you may claim to favor, or actually work in support of - for precisely the same reason that someone who favors political assassination is not on my side - the harm they do to society as a whole is almost certainly worse than any benefit to whatever side they favor, except in circumstances more extreme than we have in the US.
And I'd love to see you address the problem of holding wrong-doing political allies to account.
>This story popped onto my radar because one of my Discord room’s inhabitants brought it up: Isn’t this a clear sign that DeSantis is bad, and should be dumped? And I end up in a weird place, because yeah, it probably does. The most likely version of this story is that DeSantis did a shitty thing to some poor people; I will not be shocked if that ends up being the pretty confirmed version of this story.
If doing "shitty things" disqualifies somebody as presidential material then nobody is suited to become president. DeSantis' shitty thing is a hell of a lot less shitty than nearly all alternatives, so dumping him would be a massive mistake.
A few poor people who are in the country uninvited getting screwed around a bit is much less of an issue than facilitating mass illegal immigration in the first place.
Agree with your main point, and I feel similar and am getting increasingly tired and apathetic about the integrity of political news. But also, I don't understand how busing new immigrants to a different (nice) place is so bad. From my understanding, the transportation of newly arrived undocumented immigrants is extremely common in many states.
If I were a criminal alien, I would WANT to be flown to an area where democrats were in the majority. I can only think of the positives of this happening and none of the negatives. Did I think I would be given the red carpet to the White House and greeted with open arms for being sneaky, sneaky?
I'm not in a southern border state but I can understand how conservatives in them feel exasperated about the invasion of illegal immigrants.
A more recent example is the Duke/BYU volleyball case, where supposedly someone was yelling racial slurs, but further investigation has shown absolutely no corroborating evidence.
You're right. As a moral standard, doing shitty things like this makes that person unelectable.
Living in a fallen world means taking what we have and making the best of it. Some people choose to fall further, and take themselves out of the running for leadership.
Don't let 'em get to you, RC - taking time to know what's true and what is not about any given story doesn't make you wrong or a bad person. It means you're a reasonable, rational person. That you, me, or anyone else can be made to feel less human b/c we don't immediately jump on the 'latest thing' bandwagon as directed is a sign of how rotten our times have become.
I...kind of agree, in that I understand why you feel that way. I blame left-leaning "mainstream" media for most of the awful things that have happened recently, in the same way I blame the boy who cried wolf for his sheep getting eaten. Naturally I also blame the wolf. But there'd be no point in talking to the wolf. The wolf can't understand what you're saying. The boy might learn something.
I do feel like I need to point out that so-called "mainstream" media isn't. Sources like Fox and Brietbart are much more viewed sources of news. It might be true that the left ignores them, but the left *shouldn't be doing that.* They're the main source of information for most of the country. The left is choosing not to engage with the counter-narrative to their narrative in a way that is costing them election after election.
I find all this incredibly annoying because I understand why other conservative folks feel how they do. There's no good way to know if any given negative story about a Republican is true. It would be much easier, and frankly more rational for people who don't neurotically follow politics like I do, to have some blanket rule like "Probably you can discount anything NYT says."
In addition, if you actually internalize the truth of what's happening - that the GOP is restricting voting rights, reluctantly endorsing candidates who undermine democratic norms, and generally acting in ways that do long-term damage to our nation - you're left with only a single viable party that believes mostly things you strongly disagree with. Basically you're being asked to stamp your approval on appointed candidates you hate.
Much much easier to be the reasonable conservative(TM) who is deeply skeptical of that narrative. To say, "I don't like Trump and DeSantis, but isn't the left doing the same thing? Where's the accountability on their side?" without considering degree, proportionality, or impact.
I'd encourage continued skepticism, but also skepticism of one's own motives to come to different conclusions. Try hard not to think, "Well the left-leaning media is out of control, so probably everything bad that gets said about conservatives is a lie or exaggeration, and probably the left candidates are just as bad."
On Holding Your Own Political Side to Account
I really hoped this was going to be about holding one's own side to account. That's something I can agree on with anyone, whatever side they come from, and no matter who did what to whom.
Instead, it's about feeling uncomfortable when someone not on your side calls your side to account, and you aren't sure whether they are lying, and if so, how much. You also present that as a uniquely right wing problem, and from my viewpoint far to the left of you, I can assure you that lies are told about everyone and anyone. And while the media *may* do a better job of fact checking if the target is on the left, it's sure not going to be a perfect job.
At any rate, you have my sympathy. I'm heartily sick of sifting through lies, and wondering whether the latest "someone on your side did something bad" soundbite has any truth to it.
Also, for the record, if you are a habitual liar, you are not on my side, whatever policies you may claim to favor, or actually work in support of - for precisely the same reason that someone who favors political assassination is not on my side - the harm they do to society as a whole is almost certainly worse than any benefit to whatever side they favor, except in circumstances more extreme than we have in the US.
And I'd love to see you address the problem of holding wrong-doing political allies to account.
>This story popped onto my radar because one of my Discord room’s inhabitants brought it up: Isn’t this a clear sign that DeSantis is bad, and should be dumped? And I end up in a weird place, because yeah, it probably does. The most likely version of this story is that DeSantis did a shitty thing to some poor people; I will not be shocked if that ends up being the pretty confirmed version of this story.
If doing "shitty things" disqualifies somebody as presidential material then nobody is suited to become president. DeSantis' shitty thing is a hell of a lot less shitty than nearly all alternatives, so dumping him would be a massive mistake.
A few poor people who are in the country uninvited getting screwed around a bit is much less of an issue than facilitating mass illegal immigration in the first place.
Agree with your main point, and I feel similar and am getting increasingly tired and apathetic about the integrity of political news. But also, I don't understand how busing new immigrants to a different (nice) place is so bad. From my understanding, the transportation of newly arrived undocumented immigrants is extremely common in many states.
If I were a criminal alien, I would WANT to be flown to an area where democrats were in the majority. I can only think of the positives of this happening and none of the negatives. Did I think I would be given the red carpet to the White House and greeted with open arms for being sneaky, sneaky?
I'm not in a southern border state but I can understand how conservatives in them feel exasperated about the invasion of illegal immigrants.
A more recent example is the Duke/BYU volleyball case, where supposedly someone was yelling racial slurs, but further investigation has shown absolutely no corroborating evidence.
So, DID DeSantis mislead people? I agree that's the critical thing, but this had me read a lot of words and failed to actually answer that.
You're right. As a moral standard, doing shitty things like this makes that person unelectable.
Living in a fallen world means taking what we have and making the best of it. Some people choose to fall further, and take themselves out of the running for leadership.
Maybe DeSantis read this and thought they were serious?
https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2017/04/06/immigration-issue-stirs-heartfelt-response-island
Don't let 'em get to you, RC - taking time to know what's true and what is not about any given story doesn't make you wrong or a bad person. It means you're a reasonable, rational person. That you, me, or anyone else can be made to feel less human b/c we don't immediately jump on the 'latest thing' bandwagon as directed is a sign of how rotten our times have become.
I...kind of agree, in that I understand why you feel that way. I blame left-leaning "mainstream" media for most of the awful things that have happened recently, in the same way I blame the boy who cried wolf for his sheep getting eaten. Naturally I also blame the wolf. But there'd be no point in talking to the wolf. The wolf can't understand what you're saying. The boy might learn something.
I do feel like I need to point out that so-called "mainstream" media isn't. Sources like Fox and Brietbart are much more viewed sources of news. It might be true that the left ignores them, but the left *shouldn't be doing that.* They're the main source of information for most of the country. The left is choosing not to engage with the counter-narrative to their narrative in a way that is costing them election after election.
I find all this incredibly annoying because I understand why other conservative folks feel how they do. There's no good way to know if any given negative story about a Republican is true. It would be much easier, and frankly more rational for people who don't neurotically follow politics like I do, to have some blanket rule like "Probably you can discount anything NYT says."
In addition, if you actually internalize the truth of what's happening - that the GOP is restricting voting rights, reluctantly endorsing candidates who undermine democratic norms, and generally acting in ways that do long-term damage to our nation - you're left with only a single viable party that believes mostly things you strongly disagree with. Basically you're being asked to stamp your approval on appointed candidates you hate.
Much much easier to be the reasonable conservative(TM) who is deeply skeptical of that narrative. To say, "I don't like Trump and DeSantis, but isn't the left doing the same thing? Where's the accountability on their side?" without considering degree, proportionality, or impact.
I'd encourage continued skepticism, but also skepticism of one's own motives to come to different conclusions. Try hard not to think, "Well the left-leaning media is out of control, so probably everything bad that gets said about conservatives is a lie or exaggeration, and probably the left candidates are just as bad."